kazoobanner · 01-13-2006, 09:26 AM

Hi there! I'm doing research in order for my company to buy a new digital printer and thus stop sourcing it out to our competition in town. I've got a report to give the week of the 23rd, and was wondering if anyone here had some good places to get some good end-user reviews (or had some printer recommendations). Some info from me...

http://www.consort.com

We deal in screenprinted banners that go up on lightpoles. We also manufacture a number of tradeshow booths, displays and the graphics that go with them. So, this printer would have to do banners; that's what we do. While the bulk of the digital banners would be inside, they also need to be able to be outdoors for an extended amount of time. We also have sewing machines that would hem and put the pole pockets in the banners, so that's another durability factor. If you need any more help, please let me know. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

bob · 01-13-2006, 11:00 AM

Aside from just which printer you should get, do you any idea of what you're getting into? The printers that will do what you want to do are not, not a one of 'em, desktop printers on steroids.

These printers require the ministrations of a reasonably skilled digital pressman to produce anything you be willing to sell. Do you have the necessary skills in house? It's not rocket science but it does require some skill.

Put another way, let's say that you wanted to start producing your own 4 color process offset printing in house. Would you by an offset press and have at it?

Not to discourage you but know what door you're opening here. If you already know that, then never mind. You won't go far wrong with, in alphabetical order, Mimaki, Mutoh, Roland. What are the people who you are doing your work now using?

Barry · 01-13-2006, 11:35 AM

As Bob said you want to look into the Mimaki, Mutoh and Roland machines. There is TONS of information on this site about the 3 brands of printers, please feel free to spend a day or 2 reading the threads here and you will walk away a much more educated person.

kazoobanner · 01-13-2006, 12:03 PM

Bob, yes. The company used to have an old Arizona printer, have had a myriad of problems with it, which is when they decided to go straight towards the outsourcing option. Myself, I've used Roland, Kodak-Encad and Epson so I know at least a small amount to start us up, and the company is well aware of the costs (monetary, time and sanity) that is involved. We also still print all of our tradeshow booths strictly in house (on the Epson).

As for what the other company is using, judging from the size of printers they have (8 feet and up), I'm assuming ColorSpan or something of that nature.

The biggest thing we're trying to do is, instead of charging an arm and leg for when people want one banner for their office lobby, tradeshow etc because we have to source it out, we want to grab those customers. The people that are looking for upwards of 20 or more digital print banners don't come to us for that; they go to the other place.

kazoobanner · 01-16-2006, 03:36 PM

Anyone have firsthand knowledge of the Mimaki line of printers? Unless I'm looking in the wrong area, there isn't a lot here; mostly Roland (which is a testament to Roland's marketing and product development). But if anyone wouldn't mind messaging me with their accounts of the Mimaki, what they've liked/disliked, etc.. it would be greatly appreciated.

eye4clr · 01-16-2006, 04:38 PM

I use a Mimaki JV3-160 with traingle full solvent inks. love it. Same speed as the rest of the lot, a bit easier to clean and maintenance, takeup roll included, easier to make a good seal around the printer to vent the solvent out, and well built heaters/sensors.

Ya know, it really seems to me that at the $27-32k price range they are all about the same. Same heads, more or less same parts, more or less same issues. The ink used plays a HUGE role in how the printer behaves, the color, and the way the heaters need to run.

As with most of this stuff, who ever is going to give you the best training and support; or what ever product you are more familiar with is going to work fine. Like lance says, "it's not about the bike".

kazoobanner · 01-16-2006, 04:48 PM

The problem is (or maybe I'm just looking at it wrong), is that the authorized service support and materials for ColorSpan, Roland, Mutoh, Mimaki and HP are all an hour away, so that part suddenly becomes a non-issue (I've dealt with the two companies that deal in all of those printers, and the tech across the board is top-notch). That's why I've been trying to find actual human opinions on it (thank you for yours, by the way). I've used a VersaCamm heavily for a year, and while I'd like to say "this is IT!" I still want to be able to offer the pres. a number of options, tell him what's good/bad about each one, and let him ultimately decide where he wants this to go.

eye4clr · 01-16-2006, 11:24 PM

If you want to offer options, consider stepping out of this price range - up. For another 50% more $ you can have 2x the speed. The HP9000. It's not really out yet, but will be soon.

The HP9000, ex Seiko 64 Colorpainter does not use the same epson head as everyone else. The 6 heads are staggered in a way that allows for true bi-directional printing. What I mean by that is, with most of our stright line head printers the ink goes down in one order when going left to right. When the head turns around to go back the other direction, the inks are going down in the oposite order. This may seem like no big deal, but it can definately make density shifts that cause banding issues as the passes lay next to one another. Plus this head can be driven about twice as fast with the same print quality.

They use a mild solvent ink that melts the media surface very well inproving the "bite" and allowing the high speeds. The inks are expensive, just like all the other OEMs. But, HP's media line is very cost competitive for the quality. The printer has 3 heaters like others so the media gets preheated, heated under the print path, and then dried.

The are bundling it with Onyx Postershop so you can have full on control over the workflow and color management. Plus drive 2 printers with the one RIP.

The HP8000 is not ready for prime time and shares almost all the same design features of the other printers we've discussed. When they get it polished up it will be a great entry level printer. Just not there yet.

kazoobanner · 01-17-2006, 08:19 AM

I'll have to check that one out (the price range I've looked at is anywhere from $10k up to $100k, just so you know). I'm trying to give them enough ideas so that no one can say that "well, we should've spent more time on it" like they did the last time they bought the Arizona printer. Problem is, for the workload that we have and are forecasting, a lot of the more expensive machines (while great) would require more maintenance and workload than we are going to be able to give it at this time.

The basic goals in mind for this printer are to start getting the 1-2 banner orders that we're subbing out back in house, and to get the marketing people excited about selling the digital banners again (would YOU be excited about selling a product that you have to sub out?). Then, after a couple years when both those needs have been addressed and the workflow is there, then we will look at a bigger printer for the longer run.

Randy-CGPD · 01-19-2006, 11:35 PM

Do you have more info about the HP9000? Other that HP's website? Thanks,
Randy

Quote:

Originally Posted by eye4clr

If you want to offer options, consider stepping out of this price range - up. For another 50% more $ you can have 2x the speed. The HP9000. It's not really out yet, but will be soon.

The HP9000, ex Seiko 64 Colorpainter does not use the same epson head as everyone else. The 6 heads are staggered in a way that allows for true bi-directional printing. What I mean by that is, with most of our stright line head printers the ink goes down in one order when going left to right. When the head turns around to go back the other direction, the inks are going down in the oposite order. This may seem like no big deal, but it can definately make density shifts that cause banding issues as the passes lay next to one another. Plus this head can be driven about twice as fast with the same print quality.

They use a mild solvent ink that melts the media surface very well inproving the "bite" and allowing the high speeds. The inks are expensive, just like all the other OEMs. But, HP's media line is very cost competitive for the quality. The printer has 3 heaters like others so the media gets preheated, heated under the print path, and then dried.

The are bundling it with Onyx Postershop so you can have full on control over the workflow and color management. Plus drive 2 printers with the one RIP.

The HP8000 is not ready for prime time and shares almost all the same design features of the other printers we've discussed. When they get it polished up it will be a great entry level printer. Just not there yet.

01-13-2006, 09:26 AM	#1
kazoobanner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155 Printer: Mimaki JV3-160SP	Looking for some guidance Hi there! I'm doing research in order for my company to buy a new digital printer and thus stop sourcing it out to our competition in town. I've got a report to give the week of the 23rd, and was wondering if anyone here had some good places to get some good end-user reviews (or had some printer recommendations). Some info from me... http://www.consort.com We deal in screenprinted banners that go up on lightpoles. We also manufacture a number of tradeshow booths, displays and the graphics that go with them. So, this printer would have to do banners; that's what we do. While the bulk of the digital banners would be inside, they also need to be able to be outdoors for an extended amount of time. We also have sewing machines that would hem and put the pole pockets in the banners, so that's another durability factor. If you need any more help, please let me know. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

01-13-2006, 11:35 AM	#3
Barry Administrator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 1,977 Printer: Versacamm SP300	As Bob said you want to look into the Mimaki, Mutoh and Roland machines. There is TONS of information on this site about the 3 brands of printers, please feel free to spend a day or 2 reading the threads here and you will walk away a much more educated person. __________________ Mimaki JV3-130SPII - Triangle Mild Solvent inks (MLD) Graphtec FC7000 Cutter Wasatch SoftRip v6.0

01-16-2006, 04:38 PM	#6
eye4clr Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,406 Printer: HP9000, HP45500, JV3, Onyx	I use a Mimaki JV3-160 with traingle full solvent inks. love it. Same speed as the rest of the lot, a bit easier to clean and maintenance, takeup roll included, easier to make a good seal around the printer to vent the solvent out, and well built heaters/sensors. Ya know, it really seems to me that at the $27-32k price range they are all about the same. Same heads, more or less same parts, more or less same issues. The ink used plays a HUGE role in how the printer behaves, the color, and the way the heaters need to run. As with most of this stuff, who ever is going to give you the best training and support; or what ever product you are more familiar with is going to work fine. Like lance says, "it's not about the bike". __________________ -- Pacific Print Works "For every big problem there is a simple answer, and it's wrong." - Author unknown

01-16-2006, 11:24 PM	#8
eye4clr Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,406 Printer: HP9000, HP45500, JV3, Onyx	If you want to offer options, consider stepping out of this price range - up. For another 50% more $ you can have 2x the speed. The HP9000. It's not really out yet, but will be soon. The HP9000, ex Seiko 64 Colorpainter does not use the same epson head as everyone else. The 6 heads are staggered in a way that allows for true bi-directional printing. What I mean by that is, with most of our stright line head printers the ink goes down in one order when going left to right. When the head turns around to go back the other direction, the inks are going down in the oposite order. This may seem like no big deal, but it can definately make density shifts that cause banding issues as the passes lay next to one another. Plus this head can be driven about twice as fast with the same print quality. They use a mild solvent ink that melts the media surface very well inproving the "bite" and allowing the high speeds. The inks are expensive, just like all the other OEMs. But, HP's media line is very cost competitive for the quality. The printer has 3 heaters like others so the media gets preheated, heated under the print path, and then dried. The are bundling it with Onyx Postershop so you can have full on control over the workflow and color management. Plus drive 2 printers with the one RIP. The HP8000 is not ready for prime time and shares almost all the same design features of the other printers we've discussed. When they get it polished up it will be a great entry level printer. Just not there yet. __________________ -- Pacific Print Works "For every big problem there is a simple answer, and it's wrong." - Author unknown

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01-13-2006, 11:00 AM	#2
bob Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 157 Printer: Mutoh Falcon Outdoor 48	Aside from just which printer you should get, do you any idea of what you're getting into? The printers that will do what you want to do are not, not a one of 'em, desktop printers on steroids. These printers require the ministrations of a reasonably skilled digital pressman to produce anything you be willing to sell. Do you have the necessary skills in house? It's not rocket science but it does require some skill. Put another way, let's say that you wanted to start producing your own 4 color process offset printing in house. Would you by an offset press and have at it? Not to discourage you but know what door you're opening here. If you already know that, then never mind. You won't go far wrong with, in alphabetical order, Mimaki, Mutoh, Roland. What are the people who you are doing your work now using?

01-13-2006, 12:03 PM	#4
kazoobanner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155 Printer: Mimaki JV3-160SP	Bob, yes. The company used to have an old Arizona printer, have had a myriad of problems with it, which is when they decided to go straight towards the outsourcing option. Myself, I've used Roland, Kodak-Encad and Epson so I know at least a small amount to start us up, and the company is well aware of the costs (monetary, time and sanity) that is involved. We also still print all of our tradeshow booths strictly in house (on the Epson). As for what the other company is using, judging from the size of printers they have (8 feet and up), I'm assuming ColorSpan or something of that nature. The biggest thing we're trying to do is, instead of charging an arm and leg for when people want one banner for their office lobby, tradeshow etc because we have to source it out, we want to grab those customers. The people that are looking for upwards of 20 or more digital print banners don't come to us for that; they go to the other place.

01-16-2006, 03:36 PM	#5
kazoobanner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155 Printer: Mimaki JV3-160SP	Anyone have firsthand knowledge of the Mimaki line of printers? Unless I'm looking in the wrong area, there isn't a lot here; mostly Roland (which is a testament to Roland's marketing and product development). But if anyone wouldn't mind messaging me with their accounts of the Mimaki, what they've liked/disliked, etc.. it would be greatly appreciated.

01-16-2006, 04:48 PM	#7
kazoobanner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155 Printer: Mimaki JV3-160SP	The problem is (or maybe I'm just looking at it wrong), is that the authorized service support and materials for ColorSpan, Roland, Mutoh, Mimaki and HP are all an hour away, so that part suddenly becomes a non-issue (I've dealt with the two companies that deal in all of those printers, and the tech across the board is top-notch). That's why I've been trying to find actual human opinions on it (thank you for yours, by the way). I've used a VersaCamm heavily for a year, and while I'd like to say "this is IT!" I still want to be able to offer the pres. a number of options, tell him what's good/bad about each one, and let him ultimately decide where he wants this to go.

01-17-2006, 08:19 AM	#9
kazoobanner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 155 Printer: Mimaki JV3-160SP	I'll have to check that one out (the price range I've looked at is anywhere from $10k up to $100k, just so you know). I'm trying to give them enough ideas so that no one can say that "well, we should've spent more time on it" like they did the last time they bought the Arizona printer. Problem is, for the workload that we have and are forecasting, a lot of the more expensive machines (while great) would require more maintenance and workload than we are going to be able to give it at this time. The basic goals in mind for this printer are to start getting the 1-2 banner orders that we're subbing out back in house, and to get the marketing people excited about selling the digital banners again (would YOU be excited about selling a product that you have to sub out?). Then, after a couple years when both those needs have been addressed and the workflow is there, then we will look at a bigger printer for the longer run.

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